Whitehorse Daily Star

Court hears details of tense YG workplace

Whitehorse resident Andrew Schaer and the territorial government were in Yukon Supreme Court Thursday pursuing legal action against each other, with Justice Leigh Gower presiding.

By Gord Fortin on May 25, 2018

Whitehorse resident Andrew Schaer and the territorial government were in Yukon Supreme Court Thursday pursuing legal action against each other, with Justice Leigh Gower presiding.

Schaer is seeking a judicial review of his dismissal from a government job last year.

The government is looking to file a permanent injunction against him for secretly recording conversations between himself and his superiors, co-workers and clients. Both matters were dealt with at the same time.

Schaer was first hired as a senior business developer on May 10, 2017 by the
 Department of Economic Development.

His employment was terminated on Nov. 8, 2017, five days after he complained that he’d faced discrimination in the workplace.

The job was subject to a six-month probation. At the end of that period, it was extended to another six months, based on complaints against Schaer.

The government alleged that he was aggressive in his dealings with clients and co-workers, and talked over people during meetings.

Schaer said he was the victim of bullying, systemic abuse, harassment and intimidation based on his first language being French, his Baptist faith and First Nations family ancestry.

The alleged religious discrimination took place on June 27, 2017.

Schaer said his supervisor, Eddie Rideout, was going over reports with him, and Rideout had repeatedly taken the Lord’s name in vain.

Schaer, a practising Baptist, felt uncomfortable, and said it was intentional blasphemy to antagonize him.

Gower asked if Rideout knew Schaer had deep religious convictions. Schaer said Rideout should have, explaining that he would take his lunch at his desk every day and say a prayer before eating.

The alleged language discrimination occurred when he was speaking French on the phone and a co-worker allegedly told him to “take that French s--- someplace else.” This took place on Oct. 16, 2017.

Schaer reported that co-workers would say disparaging comments about First Nations, pointing to two instances.

In one, a co-worker said First Nations’ self-determination was “bull s---.”

The second was an implication that graduation rates for First Nations adolescents were so low that it would be better to mail diplomas to First Nations students than have them attend classes.

Schaer told the court he found this egregious because his father is Métis, while Schaer himself does not have status. He felt that none of this behaviour was becoming for a government workplace.

On being aggressive and talking over people, Schaer said Rideout has tried to revise history.

He pointed to a June 20, 2017 email where Rideout said Schaer was perceived to be aggressive during idea generation sessions. He felt that was ironic.

“You kind of want to be aggressive on idea generation,” Schaer said.

He also pointed to the November 2017 meeting where he found out his probation would be extended.

He said Rideout admitted that the complaints of aggression were inaccurate, and added that he has this conversation on tape.

When the probation was extended, Schaer received a letter from Steven Rose, the assistant deputy minister of corporate planning and economic policy, notifying him that they would have a meeting.

During that encounter, Schaer said, he was given no information on areas of his performance that were concerning.

He told the court he was not notified about what the government expected of him at the job and was not told how he could improve.

He added that these are all topics that need to be addressed as per the collective agreement before a probation can be extended.

“None of it was done,” he said.

As for the secret recordings, Schaer said he felt he needed to do this when he was told his job wouldn’t last long because he was a liability.

He said that comment bothered him, adding he had brought all the complaints forward about disparaging comments to Rose, once he was told his probation would be extended. He said Rose took the complaints but did not raise any further conversation.

Schaer explained that he didn’t want to rock the boat at that time. He was willing to work past this as long as the issues were dealt with, and felt the only actions taken were to protect Rose.

“They’re only concerned about protecting the (assistant deputy) minister from bad press,” Schaer said.

He is seeking a judicial review because he is arguing that he was fired for a disciplinary reason, the recordings, and the government tried to disguise the termination as a probational release.

He pointed to a Nov. 9, 2017 email chain where the human resources director said it was disciplinary. He added that no one at the government ever asked to hear the recordings so the discrimination could be addressed.

He felt this was a textbook example of the government acting in bad faith because it denied him a right for a grievance through the Yukon Employees’ Union or any other recourse.

Schaer continued that his recordings prove his claims, and he was happy to play them.

Gower said the recording should have been filed as evidence before the hearing. Had they been filed, he said, he could have listened to them.

Schaer said the information had already been sworn in and that already proved his case.

The recordings were played during the case management conference. He argued that he did his job making the proper officials aware of the information and he can’t help it if they don’t ask to hear the recordings.

Ian Fraser, the lawyer representing the government, said there is little diversion between the government’s position and Schaer’s.

Fraser argued that Schaer took the issue of his performance and the allegations of discrimination and mashed them into a big ball, when those are two separate issues.

“That is the difference of perspective in this case,” Fraser said.

He pointed to the affidavit of Justin Ferbey, Economic Development’s deputy minister. It showed that Schaer’s complaints were fully investigated and addressed to Ferbey’s satisfaction.

Moving to the recordings, Fraser said this negatively impacted morale in that workplace.

Schaer’s relationships with co-workers and clients suffered once they realized they were being secretly recorded. They felt Schaer could not be trusted, and the government feels he shared confidential information.

“That’s what happened here,” Fraser said.

Schaer’s probation was extended because the government felt it had not exhausted all options to resolve his performance.

The government felt the first six months were inconclusive in determining if Schaer was a good fit and thus wanted more time to make a decision, court was told.

That being said, the issues were severe enough to not make Schaer a permanent employee.

Officials knew there were issues and decided to put a plan in place to address Schaer’s aggressive behaviour and talking over people.

It was at this point that Schaer came forward with the secret recordings and said people like Rideout were conspiring against him.

Schaer repeatedly denied having any issues with his performance, even though he was offered a meeting to deal with concerns but refused.

Gower asked that since there was clear friction between Schaer and Rideout, why someone else was not appointed to conduct a performance review. Fraser said the government possibly would have, but Schaer refused to meet.

Fraser argued that Schaer tried to leverage his recordings to gain a permanent job.

He felt this demonstrated questionable conduct.

Rose told Schaer that they were in the middle of his probation extension, and that decision would not be reconsidered. Rose indicated he would not raise the issue of discrimination but said Schaer could if he chooses.

Gower asked if Rose had an obligation to raise the issue of discrimination. Fraser said he would have if a complaint was actually made arguing that all Schaer did was try to leverage for a job.

Fraser further argued that Schaer didn’t come forward right away when the disparaging comments were first made. He believes Schaer decided to record people secretly and wait until he could use the recordings to advance his own ambition.

“That secret recording was poison,” Fraser said.

This was compounded when the recordings were released publicly, with Yukon College being sent copies.

Fraser pointed out that an employment termination during probation is not the same thing as terminating a permanent employee.

Fairness is not an issue when it comes to a termination during probation. All the employer needs is a legitimate performance concern.

Gower asked how fairness could not be a factor, to which Fraser answered that the onus is on the employee to demonstrate that he or she is a good fit for the job.

Gower said that felt strange to him. Fraser said a probation’s purpose is to determine if an employer likes a new hire, and said an employer and employee can end up with different ideas on how a probation went.

He argued that does equate to bad faith if an employer fires the employee during probation.

Fraser felt the only way to properly address the issue of breaking confidentiality was to proceed with the injunction.

He asked Gower to strike the petition because Schaer’s termination was demonstrably a release on probation. Schaer was given a chance to respond, and said he felt Fraser’s argument of perspective was purely government spin.

He continued that first-party consent is legal for the recordings.

He pointed out that at no point did Fraser or anyone in the government provide a statute, a law or any rule to say the recordings were not legal.

Gower said he will reserve his decision to a later date.

Comments (48)

Up 0 Down 0

Curious on Oct 11, 2018 at 4:12 pm

The Yukon Supreme Court decision on this was released on October 5.

Up 0 Down 0

Doug Ryder on Jun 4, 2018 at 11:55 pm

@ The Don: Public opinion stated anonymously or not should not influence a judge. It is a cornerstone of judicial independence. I am curious about your reference to “socially equipped”? What does that mean as you have indicated in your post?

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The Don on Jun 1, 2018 at 8:09 am

While I have no dog in this fight, I think it's important to remember to err is human and our public service is a collection of people - mostly good, hard working and well intentioned people - who can and do make mistakes. However, they aren't all good people, but still people who are deserve dignity and respect. Mistakes happen and sometimes even people can get hired into positions they aren't remotely mentally or socially equipped to succeed in. As a society we should be measured on how we help and support those individuals who need our assistance to be productive and afforded the dignity all people deserve.


@Cashew Errand, I am sure the judge in this case is far more astute than to equate anonymous online comments with public opinion.

Up 6 Down 0

Tater on May 31, 2018 at 4:10 pm

This may be an odd question but what was the workplace like before he got there?

Up 7 Down 37

AL on May 31, 2018 at 3:31 pm

All of this reminds of that tune "every time I go to town, the boys keep kicking my dog around".

Yes it is likely that the YG has problems, and I would even agree that there is no doubt some bad apples in the bunch up and down the chain of command. I do want to point out that in the private sector the same is true. I have had the unfortunate pleasure of working for a few A-holes in private business. Some were damn right nasty, incompetent, rude and well the list goes on. While we expect everyone to be the best of the best let us remember that just because you hang a shingle does not make you a great employer.

So before we cast dispersion on the YG and their staff remember that there are also so great folks in there. Do you think that your neighbour(s) who may work for the YG are all that some people have said? Of course not. For some I know it is fun to be the bully and cast the spiked net far and wide. It serves no-one. This process will run it's course. Do remember there are always two sides to every pancake.

Up 41 Down 1

drum on May 30, 2018 at 8:48 pm

I worked for years in HR in YG.
Everyone was on probation for a minimum of 6 months with a possible added 6 months. This was to evaluate the employees fit to the position and their performance. If they applied on another job and were successful again they were on probation for minimum of 6 months to evaluate their fit for the position.
The supervisors/managers/directors job is to guide, help, supply all necessary tools needed to the new employee, make sure they have the training for them to be successful and to mentor the employee and give feedback. The policy stipulates the process - if a supervisor came to HR at the end of a probation period of an employee and said that they wanted the employee gone because they had not met requirements HR always said where are the notes showing a trail of helping, training, tools and mentoring1!!!!! If there were none we would advise the supervisor/manager/director to open a file, following the policy and extend the probation by another six months to give the employee a chance to meet expectations. HR would assist the supervisor to do what was necessary. Many managers, supervisors, and Directors said they did not get paid enough or have the time for this. It was in their job descriptions.
Was his followed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Up 9 Down 1

ProScience Greenie on May 30, 2018 at 7:53 pm

Holy cow, Well Now... I've only been to Kelowna a few times in my life and never for more than a day or two. Your heavy on the assumptions with that, almost Trump-like.

In this small territory, where everyone and their dog is close to so many that work in government, it is so very easy to know exactly what goes on. So don't go wagging fingers that the rest of us outside YG (and other governments) don't know about the good, the bad and the ugly of it all.

Here's a hint to better living - you catch more flies with honey. It helps to bring people together. We need more of that. Anyways, if you agree a big housecleaning is needed top to bottom then maybe we're kinda sorta on the same side.

Up 24 Down 0

Doug Ryder on May 29, 2018 at 11:50 pm

@David: A very well written and concise statement of the problem within YG. However, I am not certain that the politicians have the ability or even the will to change the dynamic. It would be political suicide for “them” to try. This is a town well known for eating it’s own.

While I observe that you did not provide a descriptor for the behaviours you referred to above there is one that comes to mind, sociopathic. But, I should be clear however to qualify, sociopathic at best.

It seems a little LOL’ish that YG aspires to be one of the top 100 employers.

I have also heard similar about the Respectful Workplace Office. Although somewhat after my time I understand from those who speak of it that it is at best another layer of management and at its worse, complicit in the toxicity. I have heard that they also tend to eat their own for the sake of image.

We have heard a lot about Health and Social in the papers recently but one should wonder about the senior leadership in Justice. I understand they are looking for their 4th manager in less than a year. If senior management is so great to work for why all the turnover?

Up 23 Down 1

Guncache on May 29, 2018 at 9:54 pm

I retired from YTG in Sept 2017. I was an Assistant Manager. I encountered senior management who felt entitled and full of themselves. They all stuck together like the "old boys club". If you didn't join them, you were ostracized. I witnessed employee abuse and both HR and the Manager did nothing. I witnessed HR, a Manager and a Director wasting taxpayer money on poor hiring practices. If the public could see the incompetence of management at all levels they would be sickened. I have forwarded some info to HR only to be met with a brick wall.

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Cashew Errand on May 29, 2018 at 7:33 pm

By the number of votes on this discussion thread in favour of his position, it looks as if the whistleblower has already won his case. Hopefully the judge is paying attention to Yukon public opinion!

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drum on May 29, 2018 at 5:45 pm

Respectful Workplace office is nothing but a JOKE.

They only support Senior Management with healing Circles!!!!!! HAHA

Up 38 Down 9

drum on May 29, 2018 at 4:37 pm

I love the Acting DM saying he cannot make any changes when someone goes to him in a belief that he will listen and support someone who is being bullied and treated badly. Why the F-----k are they receiving their disgustingly huge salary? YG is a disgusting workplace at all levels. I know I worked there.

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@CJ on May 29, 2018 at 4:13 pm

I did read the article you provided the link to, and I still take away that recording a conversation in the workplace is not illegal ... But I guess that ruling will come out in this case. As for acting and speaking in the workplace as if being recorded, I meant that we should all think about our behaviours and our words and how they might be interpreted. I have worked in senior management positions in the private sector for many years, and have never encountered - nor would I tolerate - a discussion like the one that was recorded. To think that these highly-paid YG employees can be so unprofessional, disrespectful and cruel makes my stomach turn.

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Well Now on May 29, 2018 at 1:22 pm

@ David Yes, yes, and yes again. Thank you for confirming that which all of us YG'ers instinctively and intrinsically know to be true.
@ PSG Obviously, you have never worked at YG to understand exactly how they victimize their employees. Yes, taxpayers are victims because our tax dollars are being used to defend the likes of these discriminators, abusers of authority, managers who fail in their duties, etc., but to minimize or discount the effect on the individual employee is complete ignorance and about as callous as it gets. Your comment condones the abuses at the expense of employees. If you believe discrimination, abuse of authority and failure to do one's duty is a proper use of your tax dollar, then please go back to Kelowna. The Yukon needs to move forward; not backwards in these areas.

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Keeping My Head Down and Ears and Eyes Open on May 29, 2018 at 12:50 pm

ABC just cancelled its hit show 'Roseanne' after its star, Roseanne Barr tweeted comparing an African American civil servant to an 'ape'.

Too bad Deputy Minister, Justin Ferbey doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to do the same in our department, as the people who made the reprehensible comments to Schaer about First Nation Self-determination being "bullsh_t", that First Nation youth were 'too stupid' to graduate high school, and telling Schaer to: "Take that f_cking French sh_t someplace else!", are still working for Yukon Government. Nothing has changed.

So much for 'accountability' and 'leadership'.

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ProScience Greenie on May 29, 2018 at 12:32 pm

You need to be less judgemental Only Adult. The dysfunctionality and rot in the upper levels in YG is epic and I rant about the need for a serious housecleaning all the time. As well, about 10% or so of the middle and lower levels of YG are useless or troublemakers. A housecleaning is needed there to. Fix those problems and all taxpayers (including all the good hardworking YG employees) will be better off.

As to those bigotted comments by staff, that should lead to instant firing. Too much bigotry coming from all ideological
directions (including progressives sadly) and it is all wrong.

Up 33 Down 2

woodcutter on May 29, 2018 at 12:06 pm

Goodness, imagine working there, I think I wouldn't last 6 months with antics like this. Perhaps a dose of working in the private sector would do something to make everyone appreciate their jobs.

Reminds me of a line in the 80's movie "Ghost Buster" " ...we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've worked in the private sector. They expect results."

Up 37 Down 5

Sad but True on May 29, 2018 at 6:55 am

1) Is it not odd that if YG had such a litany of complaints against Schaer over a six month period that the only submitted proof is a single letter/email dated 'after' his dismissal (by the person now filling his position)? You would think YG's HR dept would have quite a file if it were true. Notes even, taken and kept by management during his probation... yet they have submitted nothing to corroborate their position.
2) Schaer wasn't fired for said implied 'performance or bahaviour' issues, on the contrary, they had extended his probation having found no grounds to release him on probation (almost like they were waiting, hoping for him to mess up in some way). It wasn't until he brought the abuse to their attention that he was terminated for 'taping people'.
3) After now having read several different views on the matter and seen the entered 'facts' of the case, I also do not think he blackmailed anyone, or tried to use the tapes as leverage. He asked for the wrong-doers to be dealt with and wanted some sort of security in the job he was already doing under the circumstances of what he had already been subjected to. Schaer said he would press no formal charges if they handled it properly internally.
4) I also found it strange that on more than one occasion now he has offered to play the tapes in their entirety, which would also be very telling of his actions, behaviour and performance as well as the misdeeds and mistreatment by fellow employees and management, yet has been denied this by the Courts. It seems like no one is even interested in hearing the tapes. Are they are trying to quash the very evidence that could exonerate Schaer and/or further prove more misdeeds at YG?. (Very very odd)
5) Would I feel uncomfortable knowing I had been recorded at the workplace? Yes I would, but I have to look at the reasoning behind the recordings. Schaer claims the strange behaviour and bullying started almost immediately, day one I believe he said. Having moved all the way to the Yukon and being the 'New' guy I may have found myself in a similar position of wanting to document the situation in case things escalated. Which in this case it seems it did and he was right to do so. It doesn't appear to have been done with malicious intent or to divulge government secrets since he has only revealed or released snip-its of some of the actual abusive behaviour and was blocked by YG and the Courts from sharing anymore evidence.
6) I've read a lot of the commentary and I see several posts questioning the character and actions of Schaer as an employee, reciting that he has a history of this kind of behaviour at the workplace. Where? I have seen no proof of that. There have been no ex-fellow employees coming forward saying anything of the sort. It is also my understanding to work at YG they do extensive back ground and work history checks, calling in on references etc. I'm sure you don't apply and get hired after being asked, "Hey, are you a good employee?" and they then just take your word for it. Nothing about this adds up on the side of YG, nothing. Where is this complaint history from YG or from anywhere he has been employed?
7) I feel like we are all missing the big picture here. There is a big problem at YG. Nothing about any of this should sit well with Yukoners. There has been a fundamental break down of professionalism, respect and etiquette. The First Nations should be outraged as should Francophones, Christians and the citizens and residents of The Yukon for this kind of behaviour taking place in the year 2018.

Up 48 Down 3

David on May 28, 2018 at 8:27 pm

After reading this comments section I feel compelled to contribute and I want to speak specifically to those in the comment section who are siding with YG over Schaer.

Let me be clear that I am by no means suggesting that Schaer is without fault in terms of his alleged actions in raising these issues, but I do want to emphasize that there is likely far more at play than the average reader would be privy to. For those who are within YG, you will know exactly what I am talking about.

During my tenure with the Yukon Government I worked in multiple senior management and executive roles where I was exposed to things that many non-YG readers have only heard about through anecdotal second or third hand accounts of events. It is critical for readers to understand that this is not an isolated event within YG and that where there is 1 person putting up a fight, there are tens if not hundreds of similar instances where senior YG management has demonstrated an unwillingness to address even the most basic of workplace issues. Instead, most (~75+% of YG's MG senior management) will instead opt for the "head in the sand" approach consisting of 90% of time spent planning on how to avoid falling on the proverbial knife and avoid dealing with the core issue, while the balance (10% of their time) is spent planning how to explain and spin the act of doing nothing to those underneath of them desperately crying out for help and support.

To so much as suggest that this is merely a by-product of "Peter's Principle" at work is an offensive notion to me because it allows us to pass off a systemic issue as something that could be attributed to a relatively isolated number of incapable middle managers, when in my humble opinion the issues start, and end, at the very top.

The reality for those who haven't been there themselves is that YG is a world in which those who are successful in senior roles avoid, enable, and even REWARD the kind of despicable behaviour that is outlined in this, and many other similar cases that I encountered during my tenure within YG. Don't even start with the Respectful Workplace Office, which is designed to look like a constructive step towards restoration of a healthy workplace dynamic, but is in reality nothing more than a distraction mechanism intended to keep YEU advisors at bay while incompetent DM's buy themselves more time to avoid an issue they're already well versed in.

If you want to get to the root of the problem then save yourself the trouble and go straight to the Deputy Ministers that rely on their $180,000-$235,000.00 base salary, plus performance bonus, plus pay in lieu of pension/benefits, yet still find it impossible to do anything during the course of their daily jobs to address this sort of nonsensical workplace issue. I can guarantee that if the issue cannot be immediately and directly traced back to the massively overpaid DM's then the cause of the issue is their similarly overpaid ADM's. Sure, there are many problems lower down, but at the end of the day, those that are truly familiar with GAM, YG Policy Manual, the Public Service Act, etc. will appreciate that without the support of DM's and to a lesser extent ADM's, nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, will change within YG. Yes, directors and senior managers are overwhelmingly the people that YEU staff resent because they are the faces of "the machine," but everyone who has sat in a seat similar to myself will recognize that they aren't necessarily the problem, they are merely the symptom of a much larger issue that rises to the most senior management level within YG's public servant pool.

The Yukon Government promotions and compensation system incentivizes complacent, lethargic, and repetitious decision making processes that is designed to keep things the way they are. Those in the decision making seats operate from a position of fear, which pushes them to the point where they avoid rocking the boat at all costs for fear of reprisal from a higher power. If not this, at the highest level they act purely for fear of losing their "at pleasure" appointment status, which further encourages a propagation of the status quo.

This is a problem that can only be solved by something to fundamentally change the way things work from a day-to-day operations perspective. That isn't a job for bureaucrats, it's a job for the politicians (the real public servants) that are meant to be fully committed to ensuring an efficient and effective public service for the people of the Yukon. I'll do my best to remain apolitical in terms of my viewpoints, and instead finish by saying that I hope the Liberals finally recognize first hand what has been and still is going on right under their noses. Should they fail to do so, I can say with complete certainty that they won't see a 2nd term in office, no matter how great the economy is. After all, this is a government town, so most of us don't really care as long as the transfer payments keep coming in.

Up 25 Down 2

Doug Ryder on May 28, 2018 at 5:47 pm

@ keeping my head down... Well thought. Well stated.

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The Only Adult In The Room on May 28, 2018 at 5:46 pm

Attention 'ProScience Greenie':

Despite your progressive moniker, your comment ("The only victim in all this is the taxpayer") is more consistent with our knuckle-dragging predecessors than acceptable social norms of behaviour.

Newsflash: As a species we have evolved (well, some of us have, anyway). The Judge saw the evidence with his own eyes that showed that the whistleblower was told to: "Take that f__king French sh_t someplace else!" by one of his racist co-workers while he was speaking his mother tongue during a business telephone call. The Judge also read how 3 of the whistleblower's co-workers (including his Director) ripped on First Nation Self-determination during a staff meeting - calling it "bullsh_t" and then ripped on First Nation youth - calling them 'too stupid' to graduate high school and suggesting that it would be 'cheaper for YG to have them stay home from school and just mail them their certificates in the mail'. The court heard that the whistleblower's father was Métis, that his partner is Cherokee, and that their children share their mother's First Nation heritage.

Up 4 Down 26

CJ on May 28, 2018 at 5:12 pm

@i repeat, it seems you can record a conversation with someone without telling them if you are a participant in the conversation, but the qualifications are complicated enough that I would certainly not be going near it for the reasons he says he was. The problems are obvious, it seems to me, and as outlined in the article linked below.

Yes, this office sounds like the staff was unprofessional, to say the least, but that might be the very reason the guy managed to stay as long as he did. He would have actually done better simply to document the remarks in writing and submit them, which I don't doubt is the advice he would have gotten from management.

But to think a workplace would function better if colleagues assumed they were being recorded, is to be seriously deluded. It seems to me anyone who has had a job for any amount of time recognizes that this dude was high maintenance. At the least, it wasn't smart to make himself the biggest problem in an office full of problems.

http://blg.com/en/News-And-Publications/Publication_4539

Up 34 Down 3

I repeat - on May 28, 2018 at 3:30 pm

Whether he wins the wrongful dismissal case or not, senior people at YG were recorded saying terrible unprofessional things about a senior manager, about Yukon College, and about First Nations people. And CJ you are mistaken, it is not illegal to record people. As some commenters have said, maybe if everyone behaved and spoke at work as if they might be recorded, YG would be a better workplace and serve the people of the Yukon better.

Up 10 Down 38

ProScience Greenie on May 28, 2018 at 2:40 pm

The only victim in all this is the taxpayer.

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The Only Adult In The Room on May 28, 2018 at 1:02 pm

To: Ex-YG
So you mean to say that the 3 Deputy Ministers - including the Deputy Minister of the Executive Council Office (appointed by Premier Silver), the Public Service Commissioner (also appointed by Premier Silver), and Premier Silver's Chief of Staff - all of whose emails they exchanged after they fired Schaer which were read by the Judge and in which they are boasting that Schaer has no ties to Yukon and will likely leave after he is fired and only expressing concern for the comments that could be attributed to the supervisors and not the victim(s) of the the discriminatory comments or the whistleblower - does not reflect poorly on Premier Silver's Liberal Yukon government? These senior public officials were appointed by Premier Silver. The Premier has a choice - he's either part of the solution, or part of the problem.

I can't wait until election day to send Slippery Sandy Silver and his cabinet packing.

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my opinion is right on May 28, 2018 at 12:08 pm

I had the "pleasure" of meeting Mr. Schaer in a non-working environment and he has a bad case of self entitlement and blaming others. it's always the others, it's never him. Again, see what he has done in Ontario.

I am also shocked at all the people supporting him here. if the government keeps "bad" employees it's not right and if they get rid of them it's not right either. Can't have it both ways. And a probation period is a probation period. Why does he even have a case here? I for one am glad that government is starting to get rid of bad apples. Say what you want, I do believe that Mr. Schaer is one.

Up 10 Down 37

CJ on May 28, 2018 at 10:46 am

What a perfect case for court, since clearly if it was left up to the public, it would be even more of a schmozzle. Everybody should act as if they're being recorded all the time? Do so few people have a problem with this guy taping on the sly? Because that is illegal. I'm pretty sure not even the police can record secretly, without getting warrants.

I get that the comments workers were making were ignorant, but that's what the public commission and human resources have policies for. It's not much different from Starbucks having to rework their training. Government might not seem to work fast enough, but there has actually been huge strides, often instigated by people who stepped up and went through channels.

But I don't even have to know the specifics of his behaviour to know that he was difficult. If he didn't see any issues with recording his co-workers secretly, it makes his judgement suspect.

I'm confused, though. Is this the same guy the Yukon News wrote about a couple of weeks ago? In which case, I thought he was already in court. And was that guy the one who was on probation and got fired supposedly for whistleblowing on youth services? Whatever, in that one, Tom Ullyett was quoted as saying, separate from the employee issues, the workplace sounded dysfunctional and human resources should be brought in. Wisest words on the subject from the government. But nobody should be accepting of secret recordings in the workplace. It will be fascinating to see what the judge makes of it. I am glad that there is that avenue.

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Garrioch's Reliable Source on May 28, 2018 at 10:02 am

The Yukon civil service is beyond absurd.
It's so bloated and full of untalented people.
Petty office politics are the order of the day.
A talented 10% in size group on new employees could easily do the same
REAL work.

Up 42 Down 5

Interesting comments here on May 28, 2018 at 9:54 am

Yes, too bad this fellow wasn't a long-term well-liked Yukon Government employee, because the issue of how people behave and speak is being lost. I heard the recordings (which are not illegal, as much as YG might want to say they are) and was appalled. This guy's suit doesn't take away from the fact that highly-paid YG employees said awful things about the people they are supposed to represent and work for....what's YG's response to that?

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Disgusted at YG on May 28, 2018 at 9:29 am

YG spends our tax dollars defending these rogue managers that don't do their duties properly while simultaneously running employees who question the status quo into the ground. There are bad managers in every department in YG. In fact, that is the norm, not the exception, in my opinion and experience.

What about that poor whistle blower in H&S services? He got fired for trying to stop inappropriate government action and for trying to protect kids in group homes. Yes, he deserved to get fired, all right (said with dripping sarcasm).

What about that woman heavy equipment operator who got fired for raising safety concerns in her workplace? I mean, if any workplace should be safe, aren't heavy equipment operators at the greatest risk if and when safety issues don't get addressed? Isn't there a law that says workers have a right to raise safety concerns without fear of getting fired??? Does that woman not also have a complaint of discrimination based on sex in her employment against the government? Why is nothing reported in the news about her case?

The moral of the story, kids, is this: Do not question anything at YG, especially is you are still on probation. It doesn't pay to speak up even if someone is going to get killed because of safety issues; it doesn't pay to speak up even if you witness blatant discrimination; it doesn't pay to speak up even if you witness your boss abusing his authority and harassing his workers; it doesn't pay to speak up even if kids in care are locked out at midnight in -25. YG does not condone integrity or free thinking in their employees. Keep your mouth shut if you want to keep your job. Why YG would even enact these laws when they have no intention of honouring them is beyond me. That my tax dollar gets used to defend these managers in avoiding their legal responsibilities makes me sick.

I am disgusted with this government . Not so much with the politicians as with the managers who can only keep their jobs by getting rid of those who question proper protocol in a public service environment. However, Politicians, now that you know what is going on, you need to clean this up.

I want my public service to abide by the laws they created in the first place and I want to feel proud of my government. YG is selling out good employees in order to protect bad ones, and that is just plain wrong.

Go, Andrew, go. I'm behind you ALL the way.

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Doug Ryder on May 27, 2018 at 10:09 pm

@ Concerned Yukoner: I agree. Good post!

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Doug Ryder on May 27, 2018 at 10:06 pm

@ Respectful Workplace decisions are made by the commissioner. It would be an interesting statistic to see how much YTG pays out because of weak management who are flavours of the day dancing to the tune of an upper management system whose political aspirations hover around the borderline of sociopathic.

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Doug Ryder on May 27, 2018 at 9:52 pm

@YEU member - You are absolutely wrong about the Respectful Workplace office. If there were issues with Shaer’s behaviours they should have been dealt with through the Respectful Workplace office. That is what it is there for. They were not HR issues. However, the hiring of individuals who display a lack of leadership skills... That is an HR issue that hopefully with some training, guidance and mentoring HR can be corrected.

Your post indicates that you are part of the problem with the mobbing and the bullying behaviour that goes on in YTG. Your apparent anger in your post makes me wonder if you are not bullying or being bullied yourself? It seems a little overcompensatory.

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check the law on May 27, 2018 at 8:42 pm

The Employment Standards Act and the Public Service Act in Yukon (and elsewhere) include provisions about probationary periods where neither party has a commitment to the other.

Think for a second about the pickle YG would be in if the clients this dude was dealing with found out he was recording them too? H

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Yukon Justice on May 27, 2018 at 8:00 pm

Did I hear correctly? "Yogi Bear is going to do all the hiring for the Yukon Government from now on."

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Juniper Jackson on May 27, 2018 at 7:12 pm

Secret recordings? And did Mr. Schaer bait and trap people into saying things for his secret recordings? It would sound like no one had anything else to do 8 hrs a day than deal with Mr. Schaer. Certainly, it sounds like Mr. Schaer had nothing to do for all these months but get emails, trap conversations. It will be interesting to see how the judge interprets all this... from both sides.

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Ex-YG on May 27, 2018 at 6:17 pm

@The Only Adult

I love how you slipped in that partisan BS at the end there. People just can't seem to help themselves when an opportunity comes along to blame something else on the Liberals.

Most of "Senior Management" has been around for YEARS, which means they were hired during the PC watch. So maybe the fault lies with the attitudes prevalent in the govt during the time they were hired, and the standards set during that time...? Yes, you are correct, "Heads need to roll at YG." But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Liberals currently being in power.

It's too bad you brought that up because otherwise you made some pretty good points.

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Keeping My Head Down But Eyes Open on May 27, 2018 at 6:03 pm

To 'YEU Member':

He's not a whistleblower? Really? From the very second that he told the ADM about the discrimination (which the ADM admits to in his memo - the same memo that was read into court), he became a whistleblower under Yukon law.

As a Yukon Government employee it makes me sick to my stomach knowing that I have to work along side the racists that made the discriminatory comments. Yes, they're all still working for YG! So I guess it's OK to tell Francophones to: "Take that f___ing French sh_t someplace else!" and say in staff meetings that First Nation youth are: 'too stupid' to graduate high school, or that it would be 'cheaper for YG to have them stay home from school and just mail them their certificates, or that First Nation Self-determination is "bullsh_t" - because that was the evidence presented in court.

Based on your comments, it looks like ignorance and racism extends to the union as well. Time to clean both houses!
This guy is a whistleblower. He showed incredible courage coming forward the way he did and should have been rewarded - not fired.

The fact that this sort of thing is still going on in the 21st century shows poorly on all Yukoners and the Yukon Government. How can we attract business investment in the Yukon when we clearly lack rule of law? Who in their right mind would invest in such a place?

The world will be watching Justice Gower's ruling very closely indeed!

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Doug respectful work place decisions are made by the commissioner and does not work on May 27, 2018 at 11:06 am

by the commissioner and does not work at all. In my case they fired all the staff of a respectful work place and put in new ones. You would be shocked how much a year the Yukon pays out for weak manager's who are incompetent in managing staff.

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Will Dave you don't seem to understand how some senior managers on May 27, 2018 at 11:01 am

how some senior managers manage in the Yukon Government. From my experience, there are 100's of good employees pushed out the door all the time. Weak senior managers don't know to manage good staff. I've seen it a lot of times.
Good staff are to be team players and add value to the work environment of the Yukoners Public Service.
The management of public service senior management action should be done by an independent group with experienced people.
What the Yukon Government did to me and others I worked with was disgusting. There is group of bad managers, It will come out in the end.
Wilf Carter

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The Only Adult In The Room on May 27, 2018 at 10:42 am

Hey 'Dave':
The evidence is that the guy was told by a co-worker to "Take that f___ing French sh_t someplace else" while he was lawfully speaking his mother tongue during a business conversation in the workplace. It's people like you that are part of the problem in the Yukon.

The Judge saw the ADM's own memo in which the ADM admits that the guy blew the whistle and properly reported the discrimination to the ADM who said that he wouldn't "raise the conversation" about the discrimination. The law requires an employer who learns of workplace discrimination to fix it - period. The people who made the discriminatory comments about Francophones, Indigenous self-determination, Indigenous youth, and Christians are still working for YG. So much for fixing it! But hey, they sure fired that thar whistleblower (yeehaw!).

The Judge saw emails from no less than 3 Deputy Ministers which proved that they knew of the discrimination and yet instead of investigating and fixing it, they sat around for 5 days emailing each other and talking about how the guy has no ties to the Yukon and will likely leave.

The Judge saw how the Deputy Minister for the Executive Council Office stated in an email that he wasn't concerned about the victim of the discrimination - only about the comments which could be attributed to the supervisors. If that isn't contempt for the law, I don't know what is. Shame!

Heads need to roll at YG. I can't wait until election day. Slippery Sandy Silver's days are numbered!

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Concerned Yukoner on May 27, 2018 at 9:35 am

There are lots of clicks in government departments. If you have a different opinion or perspective or are different than the click then the group can shun and ignore you. These issues should have been taken to Respectful Workplace by the Employer. The onus is on the Employer to try and improve working situations. In this case, it appears the immediate supervisor was contributing towards the problems and was even part of the problem along with other co workers. The Employer failed in their duty and responsibility to go thru Respectful Workplace to deal with disrespectful comments and behaviours. God only knows what was being said in whispers about Andrew behind the scenes. Andrew’s behaviour could also have been addressed at Respectful Workplace. The employer did nothing and should bear the blame and penalty. They should reinstate on probation with a Respectful workplace plan in place and provide opportunity in a healthier YG workplace if such a department exists, which in YG might be doubtful.

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Doug Ryder on May 26, 2018 at 8:40 pm

@Dave: Is this the same untouchability and entitlement that the employees who made racial slurs in the course of their employment are benefitting from? Is this the same untouchability and entitlement that allows the employer to violate due process?

He had no choice but to agree to the terms of his employment to be hired. Are you suggesting that people should remain unemployed as a matter of principle? Raising this as an issue is not just unfair it is prejudicial and has no probative value beyond prejudice. It is unfortunate that people still tend to discredit and vilify others rather than argue the merits of a position.

What is overwhelming? It is the continued assertion of the right to vilify and discredit others... You have demonstrated classic mobbing behaviour and I wonder if this your intention? Your entitlement?

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Stan Winter on May 26, 2018 at 8:08 pm

Serious management issues at play here.
Making offensive comments that show dysfunction and racism- pretty poor.

Maybe this guy has his issues but had he not fought back we would not have heard and of this behind doors banter.

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YEU Member on May 26, 2018 at 4:54 pm

Doug Ryder, respectful workplace office would have nothing to do with a performance management issue like this. This is an HR issue through and through.
I can't believe anyone has any sympathy for this case.
He's not a whistle blower.
He's not a hero.
How in blazes did he get past the interview?
YG does NOT need any more "victims", glad he's gone.

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Doug Ryder on May 25, 2018 at 10:12 pm

The employer appears to have failed in its obligation to address any “perceived” behavioural concerns through the Respectful Workplace office. It really has to make one wonder about the timing of these perceptions. However, this issue of perception that seems to be currently in vogue has really got to stop. People perceive things the way “they” are and not as they really are.

Everyone should speak as if they are being recorded. The government is a public body in service of the people. Your conduct matters. If true, the comments that were reported earlier in the news are disturbing. Not humorous at all, as some, might defensively retort. Too often I have heard people in positions of public trust state that it was just something they said and not something that they believe... Cheapening their own words, their own thoughts... We can not tolerate such a world where words mean nothing. In this world, there is nothing to trust in the chaos.

Again, we should all speak as if we are being recorded. Our utterances should be deliberate and thoughtful. Our words should mean something and we should be accountable to them... Especially so when one holds a position of public trust.

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Yukon Watchdog on May 25, 2018 at 6:40 pm

I hope you win, Andrew Schaer. Good on you for fighting back. Clean up these abuses in government.

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Dave on May 25, 2018 at 5:33 pm

So, hired May 10th knowing full well that he signed and agreed to a 6 month probationary period where the employer could terminate his employment at any time. Then just before that probationary period is over he is let go and he files a lawsuit about it? Imagine having to work with this guy in the future if he wins this and gets to keep the job.

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