Whitehorse Daily Star

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Pictured Above: LOIS MOORCROFT and DARRELL PASLOSKI

Tensions flare over questions on care facility

Members on opposite sides of the legislature continue to butt heads over what it will cost to run the continuing care facility planned for Whistle Bend in Whitehorse.

By Sidney Cohen on April 27, 2016

Members on opposite sides of the legislature continue to butt heads over what it will cost to run the continuing care facility planned for Whistle Bend in Whitehorse.

On Tuesday, the tensions reached a new high.

The premier charged the official Opposition with suggesting that government employees violated the Financial Administration Act.

He did so after Lois Moorcroft, the NDP critic for highways and public works, asked about the process for determining operation and maintenance (O&M) budgets for big building projects.

“(The Opposition is) basically implying that all of the people involved in this process – all of the individuals who worked through this process to get this project to where it is – are doing so in violation of the law,” Premier Darrell Pasloski said in response to Moorcroft’s question.

She had asked the government to confirm that the Financial Administration Manual requires the government to include in its budget submission for a new capital project an estimate for how much it will cost to operate and maintain once construction is done.

Pasloski said he was “truly astounded” that Moorcroft would suggest Yukon public servants did not follow the manual’s instructions when planning the Whistle Bend facility.

“I am very disappointed that again we hear the opposition blaming and accusing government employees of doing something improper or, in this case, illegal.”

The manual explains financial policies in the territory and the processes by which they must be carried out.

Section 2.4.5.3 outlines what information must be included in a budget submission as part of the five-year plan for a big building project.

According to the manual, “For each project, departments are required to include in the plan such things as: ... the total estimated capital cost of the project and the financial and human resources required to complete the project, including the resulting O&M impact of the project.”

Today, the Department of Health and Social Services provided the Star with a rough timeline of the development of the Whistle Bend facility’s O&M budget.

Health and Social Services carried out a $168,000 business case assessment for the facility and obtained a design for the structure in 2013.

In 2014, the department made a formal request to build a 150-bed continuing care centre, which would operate at an estimated cost of $26.9 million (2014 dollars) annually.

This figure included facility maintenance, utilities and program costs, department spokesperson Marcelle Dubé wrote in an email.

“Once the size, programming, systems and special requirements are determined, a more accurate O&M budget can be set,” she said.

Dubé noted that, “A project this size moves through a series of steps and criteria as set out in the Financial Administration Manual,” and that “The process of developing an O&M budget is similar to the capital budget process.”

Health and Social Services Minister Mike Nixon told the house Monday that a concrete figure for the operation and maintenance of the Whistle Bend facility is “a couple of years out.”

He said the $28-million estimate is based on the O&M costs for the Copper Ridge Place seniors’ home, which runs at about $500 a person per day but which offers fewer programs and features than the new facility will.

The breakdown of the Whistle Bend’s O&M estimate remains unclear.

• How much will it cost to run the palliative care unit?

• What’s the price tag for the mental health wing?

These are questions the government has yet to answer.

On Tuesday, NDP MLA Jan Stick asked how the government can base an O&M calculation for Whistle Bend on Copper Ridge, when the former will offer services that the latter does not.

“We also know that Whistle Bend will be offering a wider range of care options not available now,” Stick said.

“These include beds or a house for palliative care, mental health care, and high-acuity care for those who require a high level of medical care on an urgent but temporary basis,” she said.

“How does the minister believe the costs of operating Whistle Bend will be the same when the proposed range of services will be so different?”

Nixon refused the Star’s request for an interview on the range of unanswered questions.

Comments (12)

Up 0 Down 0

andy odel on May 3, 2016 at 11:41 pm

When was the last time anything YTG, or any government did that estimates were anywhere near close on. Why don't they just get on with building this facility and pay the costs when they happen. It's going to happen anyway so why don't the kiddies in the leg get on with things that are more important.

Up 3 Down 1

BNR have you ever developed a project like this in the public sector on May 3, 2016 at 2:00 pm

I did not think so by your answer because if you did, you know the last statement you made is totally out to lunch. I did project estimates on a court house in ST Albert AB and we had sub soil conditions that were not realized and the project cost more to build.'
Health center costs are hard to determine at the best of times.
I really like to see any politician try to direct staff on setting any kind of budget for the O & M of anything.
That would be at best a gong show.
NDP and Liberasl don't have a clue about how to determine the costs estimates of anything as far as public projects go but just like to make up questions that have no merit to them and are trying to score brownie points with voters.
Voters want the specially home care place to live healthy last days of their lives in the best possible comfort, love and care as possible but the liberals and NDP and some misinformed people think they know best.

Up 7 Down 2

Rorex1983 on May 2, 2016 at 3:36 pm

While Stick's questions are good, its kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. "How can we trust these estimates when they include services we have never provided before?"

Well Stick how can you accurately estimate a service you have never provided before? You could look at other jurisdictions but you can guarantee there are going to be cost increases given higher wages and the remoteness of the Yukon. How are you going to estimate uptake of a new service? Put bluntly an estimate is an estimate, its not 100% accurate. Quite to Nixon's or the Department of Health and Social Services credit the estimating of the cost of a new services without the information I have pointed out you won't have above can best be done by utilizing the actual cost incurred on a per client basis across a variety of services. This is essentially the law of averages.

Up 8 Down 2

Rorex1983 on May 2, 2016 at 3:28 pm

Despite what's stated in the comments here, Moorcroft is questioning public servants ability to follow the law. Assuming that public servants would just follow marching orders even if they breached legal acts such as the FAA. Its not like the YG has a whistle blower policy or a union, oh wait...... I hope that public service members see that this is what the NDP think of you and vote Liberal or Yukon Party.

Up 7 Down 3

Rorex1983 on May 2, 2016 at 3:23 pm

@ BnR
Are you suggesting we don't need these facilities? Or are you just saying their O&M budgets are inflated? What do the O&M costs have to do with the marching orders to "get these projects going regardless". You realize that the costs of creating these facilities are Captial Costs, right? Are you implying that they are creating facilities that are unnecessarily costly to Operate & Maintain? If anything Whistle bend will save money by having everything under one roof. Whistle bend has been in the works for sometime so I kind of doubt they are rushing at this point. The WCC is actually extremely cost effective when compared to facilities in other jurisdiction especially when you take in to consideration that the Yukon tends to be colder then those jurisdictions. Are you an expert on the costs associated with running a facility?

Up 8 Down 8

BnR on May 1, 2016 at 8:48 am

Well, given the track record, she is justified in asking these questions. Do some digging on the O&M of the Dawson hospital, Watson Lake hospital, the new WCC. And never mind the Dawson WWTF debacle. And no Wilf, she's not blaming the public servants. The governing party is ultimately responsible, they get their marching orders from the top down; get these projects going regardless. Yes Wilf, we know how much "experience and facts" you have from all over the world.....

Up 8 Down 10

Politico on Apr 29, 2016 at 11:27 pm

Obviously all the comments here are written by the under employed over paid YP hacks. Why doesn't the YP just answer the questions instead of attacking the questioners. Oh sorry, I used a word to big for the YP cheer leaders to understand.

Up 12 Down 6

History has shown that NDP record in the Yukon on senior care on Apr 29, 2016 at 4:42 pm

is developing a building at the hospital that did not open.
That costly mistake cost Yukoners $10 of millions of dollars.

Up 21 Down 11

Why doesn't the NDP and liberals give Yukoners on Apr 28, 2016 at 10:38 am

their budget estimates for the new center?

Up 27 Down 18

jc on Apr 27, 2016 at 5:18 pm

There she goes again, useless jabbering just to be heard.

Up 19 Down 23

The NDP have blamed the management of government on the backs of our employees on Apr 27, 2016 at 4:22 pm

Go get the facts on project management before making outlandish BS statement that are founded in dreamland and stop harming our public servants and seniors.

Up 26 Down 13

tax tax tax on Apr 27, 2016 at 3:51 pm

Why not tell us how much your carbon tax will cost us? Or any of your other socialist money pits for that matter. NDP are not fit to govern. Stop Hanson.

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