Whitehorse Daily Star

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Pictured above: LOIS JOHNSTON and MIKE GAU

Put your infill plans on hold, association urges city council

Council has been asked to put on hold efforts that could add residential properties to the Mary Lake subdivision.

By Stephanie Waddell on June 20, 2017

Council has been asked to put on hold efforts that could add residential properties to the Mary Lake subdivision.

Lois Johnston of the Mary Lake Community Association made the request at Monday’s city council meeting.

She asked that the infill proposal for Mary Lake – one of eight neighbourhoods being considered for additional residential lots – be halted until a meeting can be held in October with residents.

Council voted in favour of exploring the possibility of adding the infill lots around town last month, launching a survey, which ended yesterday, to get feedback.

The areas up for consideration include the three sites on Fireweed Drive in Mary Lake, and four sites on Talus Drive in Whitehorse Copper, along with single sites on Salmon Trail in Cowley Creek, on Couch Road in Hidden Valley, on Finch Crescent in Logan, on Sandpiper Drive in Ingram, and on Wann Road in Porter Creek.

Along with the 500 responses that have come in to the survey, and the request of the Mary Lake Community Association, a petition is circulating with 159 supporters online.

They express opposition to the possibility of infill in country residential neighbourhoods.

The petition cites concerns around protecting groundwater, environmentally sensitive areas and wildlife habitats, greenbelts and recreational trails.

It also argues that increasing population densities in country residential areas isn’t consistent with the goals of the city’s sustainability plan for greenhouse gas reduction and promoting the use of city transit and active transportation.

Johnston made similar arguments specific to Mary Lake during her presentation last night.

She also argued that traffic and road safety issues could arise with additional development.

The association took issue too with the city’s process. It notes letters were mailed only to the closest residents to the sites being considered rather than the greater community.

As well, there were next to no details on what might be in store for the sites.

Residents, Johnston argued, were asked to respond to a survey before they could ask any questions about it.

Answering a number of questions from council after her presentation, Johnston said the association had asked for a meeting with city staff to discuss the potential plans. Officials were told by city staff that such meetings don’t typically happen at this point in the process.

“So we had our own meeting,” she said.

The process – which could see city staff come back with recommendations on the various sites and whether to move ahead with the next steps in the fall – has been far too rushed, she said.

As Mike Gau, the city’s director of development services, confirmed, the city’s approach was to go out to the public without a lot of information except for the potential locations for infill and gather feedback to determine how it might proceed.

That involves continuing looking at infill for particular sites, and if so, what zoning might be applied, and so on.

Along with seeking public input, work is underway to do hydrological studies and gather other information.

“It’s all collecting data right now,” Gau said.

He admitted there is a need to work on better communication with the public. He cited some misconceptions that came through in the survey responses, such as some arguing against multifamily development in country residential areas, which is not a possibility.

Mike Ellis is the city’s acting manager of planning and sustainability. During discussion later in the meeting, he said staff had gone out with public consultation first in an effort to make sure residents’ views were taken at the earliest possible stage.

The city will need to look at input: what particular studies have already been done and would be needed before the city could move forward with the possibility of infill in any of the areas.

Ellis also confirmed that the city hasn’t done a calculation on the number of residential lots that could go into each site.

Based on the minimum standard of one hectare of land per lot in areas like Mary Lake, however, it would be somewhere between 10 and 15 lots there.

The city, he said, is not at a point of doing lot layout, but rather information-gathering.

While Whistle Bend remains the city’s major focus for development in the coming years, he said the potential infill would allow the city to offer more variety for housing in the city, including residential sites, which remain in high demand.

The city’s Official Community Plan states the city won’t put in any new country residential neighbourhoods. However, as Ellis explained, there’s no prohibition on adding new lots to existing land in those areas.

Coun. Dan Boyd voiced his concern that country residential lots not be any smaller than the one-hectare minimum.

But Coun. Betty Irwin stated her support for higher density when it comes to development in the city, noting she would not define one-hectare lots as being higher-density.

“I’m a firm believer in density,” she said.

Ellis acknowledged that developing the sites would not contribute a large amount of lots for housing stock in the city.

But he added it would follow city policies that call for housing to be added in existing neighbourhoods where possible.

Meanwhile, Irwin asked for a council and senior management meeting to be held that would look at possibilities for the Range Road North area near Northland Trailer Park.

“There is a prime location for infill,” she said.

The area was highlighted for that in the neighbourhood plan developed about three years ago.

The Kwanlin Dün First Nation also has land in the area, with the city waiting until the First Nation had finalized its plans before deciding whether to pursue infill on city land.

Acting city manager Linda Rapp told Irwin she would look at setting up a council and senior management meeting on that in the near future.

Mayor Dan Curtis was absent from Monday’s meeting with Coun. Rob Fendrick serving as acting mayor.

Comments (15)

Up 2 Down 0

Charles on Jun 26, 2017 at 6:34 pm

@Sasha & Politico; I agree with both of you, frontage is narrow and rear section is large. It just makes for a long driveway to be snow cleared or for someone who wants a long narrow house, needing one of those airport horizontal escalators to go from one end to other, so they can be close to street. I thought these greenbelt/walkway area were for utility access. Interesting how COW didn't want any of the PC walkways closed & allow adjacent residents to purchase so they had room to build garden suites, but COW can do it to suit their own agenda.

Up 2 Down 0

What 'servicing and maintenance' ? on Jun 26, 2017 at 5:20 pm

@Math "The associated tax revenues never come close to the cost of servicing and maintenance. "

What 'servicing and maintenance' ? We provide our own utilities at no cost to the CoW. The occasional snow plowing and some gravel scattered in the winter, then sweeping off the gravel in the spring, and maybe some road repairs every few years hardly amounts to the $2000+ in taxes per year the CoW collects.

@Math clearly hasn't a clue what they're talking about.

Up 6 Down 1

Politico on Jun 26, 2017 at 3:57 pm

@SashaM. If you walk into that area it's quite large. Access is the issue. You could easily fit 2 or 3 houses in there or a 6 plex. I did notice a ton of junk and forts back there. It's been a playground for many years and since all of the houses back onto that property it seems that this is just a NIMBY issue. I will admit that entry into that parcel could be challenging but nothing is insurmountable. Water and sewer are already there. There is room in the school. The SCAN program has been keeping the drug and body houses under control. I do live in the area and won't mind the new neighbors.

Up 7 Down 3

Sasha M on Jun 26, 2017 at 12:48 pm

Has anyone seen the sliver of land they are trying to make an infill lot on Wann Road? Seriously. It is a tiny greenbelt between two properties. What a joke. I am sure some of these lots are good spots, but definitely not all. And the City had better take some concerns seriously. If I could not run more than one appliance because of crappy water availability after a zoning change and increased construction I would be mighty angry. These are valid concerns, and must be treated as such. Time for a new subdivision, or an extension off an existing area. Leave the tiny greenbelts as-is.

Up 7 Down 6

Math on Jun 26, 2017 at 12:29 pm

Country and rural residential subdivisions everywhere are universally big money losers for any municipality. The associated tax revenues never come close to the cost of servicing and maintenance. If they charged enough tax to recover the costs, nobody would live there.

So, develop more of these subdivisions if you like but expect further spiraling tax rises elsewhere in the municipality to subsidize their losses. Infill comes with virtually zero new road costs and so adds to the coffers instead. Remember, municipalities are corporations.

These complaints are blunt NIMBY. Traffic? Dear me, you can stand for hours of a day on some of those streets and not see a vehicle pass.

Up 8 Down 0

ProScience Greenie on Jun 25, 2017 at 1:43 pm

With such a high demand and so much open land available in Whitehorse city limits can someone explain why creating a few more subdivisions with 4-10 acre lots is such a bad thing?

Up 10 Down 7

Alan Trail on Jun 22, 2017 at 6:00 pm

One thing to consider is that the new occupants of these lots will be able to build their own residence and a garden suite.
Two or all three of the Mary Lake lots are in land designated as greenbelt and the one lot in Cowley is zoned as environmental protection.

Thus the number of residences can be double and greenbelt and environmental protection land may be removed. You have to consider it reasonable that all residents be allowed to comment on this. My suggestion is that the city consider another rural residential sub-division. There is a demand for it so why not.

Up 18 Down 3

canon2000 on Jun 22, 2017 at 3:36 pm

why not work with local F/N and get some of their land on the market

Up 21 Down 8

ProScience Greenie on Jun 22, 2017 at 2:12 pm

The demand is there and so much open land exists so why not simply create a few more Mary Lake type subdivisions. The lots don't have to be as big and there can be more green space. Not rocket science.

So the big question to ask is why isn't that happening?? Most likely it is because doing so will hurt the bottom line of too many players. A bit of NIMBYism but it is mostly greed.

Up 17 Down 7

CJ on Jun 21, 2017 at 7:32 pm

@BnR, it's not 3 lots, it's 3 (or 4) sites in Mary Lake. Apparently that could mean 10 to 15 lots there, as the article says. Is that infill? Maybe it is, but to me infill is developing a vacant lot here and there. It's that kind of detail that trips the city up, when they take as little information to the public as they think they can get away with. I like it when residents raise these questions. That's the first time I realized that these single-digit numbers they started out with could mean something different. They've only elaborated on the Mary Lake sites so far.

Maybe 15 lots isn't that many, maybe it is. But they're minimum 1 hectare for a reason, that there's no services and the land is needed for septic and wells. So residents do need to pay attention. Whistle Bend isn't exactly a showcase for the technical abilities available up here (yeah, yeah, that's YTG, not the city -- like there's going to be a big difference).

I don't live there, but I like that there's options like that in Whitehorse. If I did live there, the thought of city planners moving in with their dogma about density would indeed fill me with dread.

Maybe a few lots isn't the end of the world, but the planners certainly aren't doing much to instill confidence. Ever notice that when planners say the public consultation has been flawed, according to them it's because people are misunderstanding them?

Up 16 Down 11

Joe on Jun 21, 2017 at 5:25 pm

You want infill, let us subdivide our lots. 1. 5 acres

Up 27 Down 3

Just Say'in on Jun 21, 2017 at 1:48 pm

NIMBYism is alive and well in the Burb's. I think if the city gave out more information about the proposed lots it would help a lot. The lots should be the same size they are here now, not the minimum size. The info is also deceiving because they are speaking of only a couple of locations but they won't say how many lots will be divided out of those locations. If you don't read it right it is misleading. Just one of those locations could potentially be six lots based on the one Hectare minimum.

Up 24 Down 7

Just Say'in on Jun 21, 2017 at 1:40 pm

Good Lord Betty Irwin. The idea of increasing density is a great idea when you are talking about lots that are hooked to the infrastructure. This saves costs and makes perfect sense. However when you speak of increasing density of country residential, the impacts are quite the opposite given the added wells and septic systems. Total different deal as anyone who has had a well knows.

Up 10 Down 9

Jayne W on Jun 21, 2017 at 1:28 pm

@BnR, I am not reading this article like you are. I see the MLCA resident's are asking questions before assuming if this is a good idea or not. Questions Council openly admitted they want to hear in order to proceed or not proceed. Take a drive in the area where the proposed infill is suggested at all the areas proposed, some are sensible yes but some it looks like they put a thumb tack on a map and said "lets start there".

Up 42 Down 14

BnR on Jun 20, 2017 at 5:24 pm

Good lord. You'd think they were adding hundreds of lots to Mary Lake instead of 3.
Of all the concerns raised, the concerns on GHGs seems to ring most hollow, given that all the residents against commute daily, and don't seem to have an issue with producing their own GHGs.
CofW, add the infills. Lots of residents would love the opportunity to get one of these lots. NIMBY's, suck it up.

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